Source: Correio da Manhã 19.07.2008, paper edition. Translations by forum posters Kazlux and Astro (here)

Depositions – Doctor friends of the McCanns spoke to the English police

Payne suspected of paedophilia

David Payne

David Payne

Twelve days after Maddie disappeared, a couple revealed the strange behaviour of one of the group’s members. Testimonies only reached the Judiciária in January this year

David Payne, one of the McCanns’ friends that were on holidays in the Algarve on the 3rd of May last year, when Madeleine disappeared, was suspected of paedophile behaviours.

The accusations were brought by a couple of friends that spent their holidays with part of the group in the summer of 2005 – themselves also English doctors. Twelve days after the British girl disappeared, Katherina and Arul could no longer keep the secret that had bothered them for two years and went to the police to make a statement. They revealed two conversations between Dave and Gerry, during which both revealed suspicious behaviour and indicated sex with minors.

According to what CM was able to establish, the depositions were given on the 16th of May. But they only entered the process in January 2008 and are included in the 13th volume of the process files. At that point in time, Kate and Gerry were already arguidos, the rogatory letters had already been issued and the English, including Dave, showed their reluctance in returning to Portugal.

Touching the nipple

Katherina made a statement that was eight pages long. She reported holidays in Mallorca with several English [people], including the McCanns and the Paynes. Two incidents left her with serious doubts about the friends’ behaviour and lead her to create suspicions that were never confirmed.

The first one happened on a night when Gerry and Dave were talking about Maddie. Katherina does not know what they were saying but she remembers that Dave sucked on his fingers, pushing them into the mouth and pulling them out again, while his other hand traced a circle around the nipple, with a circular movement over the clothes. “That was done in a provocative manner”, recalls Katherina, who says that it stuck to her memory.

Days later, the scene repeated itself. The doctor saw Dave making the same gestures again, while he talked about his own daughter. Scared, Katherina said nothing about the incident. But she took special caution, asking her husband never to let the doctor come close to the bathroom when her daughter was having a bath.

Arul went to the police to tell the same story. Katherina’s companion confirmed the gestures that were made by Dave during the conversation with Gerry but asserted that he wasn’t aware that they were talking about Maddie. He did find the behaviour in extremely bad taste, but didn’t see it being repeated.

The incident ended up forgotten in his memory and it was only the disappearance of Madeleine, who had also been with them on the Mallorca vacation, that revived it.

During the deposition, Katherina went even further and said she had associated the gestures to someone who likes to watch child pornography. “I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a different manner”, she concluded.

Friends from school days

Arul and Kate were friends from their school days. They have known each other for approximately 20 years and that was the motive that led the couple to accompany the McCanns on their holidays to Mallorca. Arul and Katherina did not know Fiona and Dave and they only met again once, during a dinner that gathered several couples. When Maddie disappeared from the Ocean Club, Katherina remembered the incident in Mallorca. And she immediately tried to verify whether Dave had again been accompanying the McCann couple, as the suspicions about his behaviour still stood. In the deposition that was made to the English police, Katherina says she decided to give a statement when she saw the tv images. Dave was among the same holiday group.

Doubts in the case

Irishman not heard – An Irishman who was spending holidays in Praia da Luz also went to the English police to report that on the night of the 3rd of May he saw Gerry carrying Madeleine towards the beach. He was never heard through a rogatory letter.

Sending delayed – The difference between the date when the deposition was obtained and the time when it was sent is not explained in the process.CM knows that the English authorities did not provide an explanation, either.

Bank account info – The PJ tried to know the bank account situation of every element of the group, in order to search for possible motives for the crime. But the English answers were laconic and did not help the investigation.

Life stories – The life stories of Gerry and Kate McCann remain unknown. The PJ tried to verify whether Maddie’s mother suffered from depression but never received her clinical records, because the judge did not allow it.

Kate accused of conditioning the case

An intercalary report from the Polícia Judiciária, which was produced immediately before Kate and Gerry were made arguidos, accuses Madeleine’s parents of having conditioned the investigation. The document is signed by an inspector and was directed to Gonçalo Amaral, who was then coordinating the process.

The investigator then stated that the information that had been collected initially, was worked by the group in order to sustain the abduction theory. He guarantees that they all lied to protect themselves and even suggests that some could have been covering the crime up.

The testimony from Janne Turner [sic], who guarantees that she saw a man crossing the street with a child in his arms, is also questioned. The policeman said that Janne [sic] was only two or three metres away from Gerry but he failed to see the man. And that, by stating that the man was headed towards Murat’s house, she ended up orienting the investigation into a false direction, which led to an unnecessary waste of time.

The same report exposes other contradictions in the English’s depositions. Kate and Gerry say that they picked up their children from the crèche at 5.30 p.m., but while the former guarantees that they went for a half-hour run on the beach and only then returned to the apartment, her husband states that they went to play tennis during that period.

After that, at around 8 p.m., one of the elements of the group reportedly went to the apartment that had been rented by the couple. Kate says that he was there only for 30 seconds and then left. Gerry speaks about half an hour. The policeman remembers that the time difference is what is needed between asking whether everything is well, or advancing in case a crime has to be concealed.

Another situation that the authorities found strange was the fact that Kate, upon realizing that Maddie had disappeared, remained inside the apartment for ten minutes. Only then did she ask for help, leaving the twins asleep in their cots while she returned to the restaurant. The policeman who wrote the report asks how it is possible that a mother facilitates the safety of her other children when it is certain that by that time she was already screaming that her daughter had been abducted.

They could not see the apartment

Another contradiction was pointed out by the inspector who was in charge of the Maddie case. The policeman remembered that the McCanns asserted that their position inside the restaurant was a strategic one, so they could see the apartment where their children were sleeping. But according to several testimonies, Kate and Gerry had their backs turned to the apartment.

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from the same page:

PJ admitted a simulation of the scenario

The arrival of the dogs that detected cadaver odours and blood traces led the PJ to admit that some of the details where Maddie had been sleeping had been staged to sustain the abduction theory. One of the examples that were pointed out in one of the many reports that were written by the investigators was the fact that the soft toy was on the bed where Maddie slept, a bed that was partially undone. The animals detected odours on the child’s toy, but they did not mark her death on that spot. Which led the PJ to admit that Maddie had died in another area of the house, and then the toy was taken to the bed because it was the most likely spot in case of an abduction. Other details were analysed, like the fact that the furniture was too well positioned and the sofa was completely pushed against the wall.

Details

  • Investigated leads – The final report is clear. All the leads were investigated, the abduction theory was verified into detail. But the investigation’s main conclusions pointed towards the death of the child in the apartment, on the 3rd of May.
  • 300 policemen were looking for Madeleine McCann during the first days. The PJ stresses that many among them spent several weeks sleeping only a few hours.
  • 2000 diligences were made by the Judiciária during their search for Madeleine. International cooperation was requested on several moments, to exclude several cases of false sightings.
  • High costs – The PJ spared no costs throughout this investigation. Millions of euros were spent on the investigation into the disappearance, namely on the high payments that were made to the labs that collected the genetic profiles.
  • Suspicions – Dave’s involvement is considered again

Parents refused technical help

Works with endangered children and approached the McCanns in the Algarve. Found the behaviour strange

Yvone, who earned credentials from the English government to work in situations that involve endangered children, was in the Algarve when Maddie disappeared but the McCanns refused her help. The specialist told the PJ, during two depositions that were made one month apart from each other, that she approached the couple after the first few hours and that the behaviour from both left her with suspicions about their involvement in the disappearance.

The behaviour of David Payne, who was accused by a couple of doctors that spent holidays with him in 2005, of having attitudes that indiciated paedophile practices, also left Yvone intrigued. The McCanns’ friend had called them aside and advised them not to speak to the technician.

Yvone found another detail strange. David’s face was not unfamiliar to her, and the technician believes he might have been inquired before, within some case of sexual abuse. She tried to remember when but failed to locate moment and the circumstances under which she had met him.

The days went by and Yvone continued to think about the issue. She then sent a letter to the English police, where she pointed out the details that she had perceived. Namely, that the bedroom window had not been forced open, that it was not normal for a couple of doctors to leave their children alone and that Kate had reacted in an aggressive manner when she had approached her. She also alerted to the official statistics, that point towards the majority of these cases to involve a cover-up from the families.

Gonçalo Amaral’s book upsets the English

A delegation from the British justice left for London yesterday after having tried, in Portimão, to keep some details of the process under secrecy.

The English, who according to what CM was able to establish, are upset about possible revelations that the book from the former coordinator of the PJ in Portimão may make, tried to request the instruction judge to maintain the secrecy on the forensics reports about the blood traces and cadaver odour that were collected from the apartment at the Ocean Club, but also other parts from the process.

As far as CM was able to establish, the pretentions from the English delegation were denied, except in the case of the identity of persons that have condemnations or a police record of paedophilia which reside in the Algarve or were spending holidays in the region when the facts took place.

The British that were in Portimão are policeman Stuart Prior, one of the senior liaison officers with the Portuguese police, a magistrate and a jurist from SOCA, the British agency that specializes in investigation organized crime.

It is not known whether the trip was made under a rogatory letter or politically negotiated between the governments of both countries.

“In defense of my good name”

The book by Gonçalo Amaral is written in defense of his honour. “I felt the need to reinstate my good name, which was publicly rubbished while the institution that I belonged to for 26 years, the Polícia Judiciária, didn’t allow me to defend myself, or did so institutionally”, Gonçalo Amaral states in a text that justifies the book. In order to carry out that defense, he requested permission from the national directory but never obtained it. The book, which will be presented by Marques Vidal, a former director of the Judiciária, is launched on the 24th of this month, during a session that is scheduled for El Corte Inglés, in Lisbon.

Loose notes:

Laboratory | Decisive test – The final report ended up being decisive for the foreseeable archiving of the process. In that document, which CM revealed, the possibility of DNA contamination was admitted.

Archived | AG announced – The day after tomorrow, the AG will release a communication that will most likely announce the archiving of the process. The case will remain pending in Portimão’s Public Ministry, waiting for better evidence.

Reconstitution | Stopped – The reconstitution of the evening of the disappearance was a diligence that was seen as essential in the process. It was stopped because some of the McCanns’ friends did not accept to return.

Wardrobe | Odour detected – The English dogs signaled traces of Maddie’s death behind the sofa and in the bedroom wardrobe. On the bed, the animals didn’t detect anything.

Contamination | Traces – The authorities have no doubts that the contamination of the location made the investigation more difficult. During the first few hours, tens of people entered the bedroom.

Removed | By phone – Gonçalo Amaral was the target of various attacks and was removed by Alípio Ribeiro, by phone, after making a statement to a newspaper.

Letter | Paedophile register – Yvone, in the letter that she sent to the English police, wanted the authorities to verify whether Dave had a register of paedophile activities.

source: Correio da Manhã 19.07.2008, paper edition








Comments

  1. Lyn

    Yes, I agree the Smith’s sighting is something the McCann’s chose to stay quiet about and their PD’s do not appear to be investigating this sighting at all.

    Also, I am somewhat baffled by the Gaspars Statements and again this is something their PD’s do not appear to be investigating – so much for leaving no stone unturned.

    However, I have been reading on another site ‘TheSergeantsInn’ about the Devon connection between these two English doctors the Gaspars, who suspect David Payne, and what appears to be a bit of an inconsistency in their statements about the dates of their meetings with the McCann’s. Is there something else behind their statements? Is it possible they are trying to deliberately avert attention away from the McCann’s and on to David Payne on purpose? I was thinking they are/were good friends to the McCann’s but not to David Payne. Having said that, they mention Gerry as well, but definitely they single out David Payne with Gerry just going along with his ‘joke’. I wonder if this is all done on purpose to explain away Gerry’s behaviour just in case somebody else ‘on the outside’ may have seen it. In particular I was thinking this behaviour was also supposed to have taken place in a restaurant on another occasion. It seems to be similar to the way the McCann’s tried to explain themselves about Madeline crying, like damage limitation, a sort of red herring with them trying to justify by saying ‘ the abductor’ must have tried the previous night and woke up Madeline and this is why Mrs. Fenn heard crying. I am thinking if eventually Madeleine is found (dead) and the case is resurrected and it was proven something happened to her in the apartment, the McCann’s will all too readily then point the finger at another of their party. I think they are so desperate for this not to be ‘their fault’ they would stoop to anything. I just can’t decide if the Gaspars are really on the side of the McCann’s or not. After all, I would like to know if the Gaspars contacted the McCann’s before giving the Police their statements. Was this one of the deleted phone calls? After all, they were supposed to be very close and intimate friends of the McCann’s so I would have thought they would have contacted the McCann’s firstly to give their condolences and then to raise their ‘suspicions’ with the McCann’s. So, was their Statement planned on purpose? I think it was given to the Police a few weeks after the disappearance, so why the delay? Is this why the McCann’s have remained so friendly with the Payne’s, so David Payne does not suspect them for the story about his behaviour? Is David Payne going to be made the fall guy when eventually everything comes out?

    Interestingly a lady called Yvonne who tried to ‘help’ in the days that followed also has a Devon connection and also sited David Payne’s behaviour. Is this a coincidence or was it again planned? Or perhaps it’s my mind working overtime but I think David Payne is being stabbed in the back.

  2. Alexandra, Portugal

    It’s funny your interpretation of the facts. Looks like Payne is being stabbed in the back. And who has helped McCanns with evidence was Jane Tanner and her partner. Once again a crime does not happen like planned. When Tanner was supposed to see a man carrying a child, she should be alone in the area. At that time Gerry should be already in the restaurant after opening the windows and so on. Or should be doing his way to the beach. Again, he had no luck because a English pal was around with his baby and Gerry had to stay talking about the weather. That’s why the plan has failed to target an abductor that, if really was there, should be seen by all of them.
    Mysterious is the way of the truth.

  3. p

    The other night, I happened to watch an old VHS tape of the Sidney Lumett film of Agatha Christie’s famous novel”Murder on the Orient Express.” It hit me like a bolt of thunder when in the first minutes of the film a scene occurred showing a man abducting a small girl of roughly Maddie’s age from a darkened bedroom and dropping her stuffed toy on the floor as he carried her out…it was identical to the story told by the McCanns..right down to the Cuddle Cat lookalike toy!!! Seemed way to close for comfort . The investigators should see this video that may have influenced their story.

  4. Enquirer

    It may be worth checking out the Masonic link between McCann, Payne, and certain officers in the Leicestershire Police Force…

  5. Liz Y

    The fact that Payne was so keen to keep Yvonne away from the McCanns, suggests, to me, that he was aware that something was untoward, that he was in the know about what had really happened. If you have a friend who had a suffered a tragedy, you’d think it would be in their best interests to coax them, to have a professional talk to them, being worried for their mental states. Once again strange behaviour. I do believe Payne is in the middle of this somewhere, and Tanner, she knows something. I think there has been a break-through, the ball is definitely rolling, I think the silly narcissistic woman with her book may well be her undoing.

  6. Derek

    Funny no comments on this webpage for 12 months. Now its back in the news for the 5th anniversary and still no comments. 99.99% of the public feel the McCanns are hiding something, and not telling the true story.

  7. Vallery

    Why dont they get the FBI to go and re-check the room? I Love watching true crime stories, and so many cases has been solved and traces of blood was discovered by using the substance they always spray? Something like “Luminisol” I am not sure that its the right name though. Also i cannot understand what kind of doctors are they? What doctors were there with them, what did they “specialise” in. Somewhere back i believe that someone said the children could have been “drugged” and then i read thast she possibly died in another room. Lets face it…its terrible, and if you as a parent accidently “killed” your child it would be better to come clean. Much rather to be haunted for the rest of your living memory and life!

  8. Patricia Fry

    When I read through the evidence given relating to the Cadaver Dogs, it baffled me why there wasn’t more attention paid to their ‘findings’. It seemed like they were brought in, job done and then ignored. How was the fact they pinpointed 10 places of ‘cadaver sites’ in and around the so called ‘abduction’ scene not followed up and acted on more thoroughly? I do believe that’s where this whole thing will be solved and the McCanns involvement will be proved. Accidental or not………..

  9. Amanda Winters

    My theory is that there was most definitely an abductor – one that is highly intelligent, trained in forensics (an ex-cop/medico/scientist etc…), who knew how not to leave any evidence.
    He opened the window in order to create a distraction, and to also make it look like the parents had staged an abduction.
    And, for some people at least, this abductor is winning.
    Fortunately, there are professionals who are highly trained in this sort of thing (eg: The elite sector of Scotland Yard that is dealing with this crime right now).
    These ridiculous comments about the McCanns guilt just come from armchair amateurs, who base their theories on Agatha Christie etc… lol!
    If the McCanns were going to ‘stage’ an abduction, they would have done a much more convincing job. The so called ‘Tapas nine’ represent a group with an overall very high IQ, and ‘if’ this group was going to stage an abduction, it would be far more convincing than opening a window that an abductor could not escape from. Nor would Kate McCann leave fingerprints on the window if she was going to simulate an abduction.
    This reminds me of the Lindy Chamberlain case in Australia, and you people really should research that case. It has now been proven, beyond a shadow of doubt, that the Chamberlains had nothing to do with the death of their baby Azaria, over thirty years ago.
    That didn’t stop the public from condemning the family at the time. That was before the internet, and the McCann case ‘theories’ just get more and more bizarre, because so many would be detectives, with nothing much to do with their lives, get to make ludicrous, unfounded comments.
    Also ‘if’ David Payne had any kind of criminal record involving children, he would have his medical license cancelled for ever. That’s just the way it works in medicine in Great Britain, and there is no way the police would keep such information from the medical board that registers and oversees the registration of doctors.
    Kate McCann had every right not to speak to ‘Yvonne’ at the time, as Yvonne was in Portugal on holidays, and really had no right to question Kate in any way. She was operating on the basis of a family crime, which it wasn’t, and so I too would have wanted her to bugger off.
    As far as the so called ‘Gaspar’ statements go, Mr. Gaspar does NOT back up his wife!!! He says that he saw the same thing (the gesture etc…) but could not see ANY REASON to suggest that it was linked to Madeleine, or any other child. Mr. Gaspar goes onto say that he never had any reason to believe that David Payne had any interest in children, and that he always found his behaviour around children to be perfectly normal- and that includes his OWN children.
    I believe that the Gaspars did see some kind of inappropriate behaviour from Payne and possibly Gerry, but that they were being ‘blokes’ and the conversation was about WOMEN/SEX – and nothing whatsoever to do with CHILDREN.
    Again, why continue to bring up the Gaspars, when one half of the Gaspers does not support the other!!

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